Catching up with Kurt Browning - The Full Interview (Pt. 2)

Kurt the Choreographer

What are the challenges of choreographing for another skater, adapting to their style?

Well, the biggest challenge is trying to make the new program plausible with the new system. That's the biggest challenge.

What if you're doing an exhibition or a pro program, like Yuka [Sato's Wine Safari] program?

It's fun, it's fun.

No challenges at all?

Not really! The big challenge is to get the skater themselves to open up and trust. There's a lot of good professional skaters, but there's not too many of them that really free themselves up to perform. I worked with Alissa Czisny. She chose her own music, Man of La Mancha, and I was like, you sure, girl? But trying to get a young girl to open up her mind to moving this way on the ice <demonstrates>...that's exciting. It's an exciting challenge. And to make these skaters realize that there's more out there beyond the jumps. That you can make people feel. People go to the ballet and they just feel so much. They walk out of there going <looks overwhelmed>...it's just movement, music and body movement, no talking, and they just about are in tears. And people in skating, I mean it's a sport first. So to try to tap into that other side of it with young skaters is really exciting. Also, they're young and they're so good. To use their bodies as a tool...it's really fun.

To see it starting to happen, I get very excited about it. Like with Joubert, I told him I said I feel like you're a car, and you never knew you had a fourth gear. You've been driving around in third, and I showed him where fourth was, and he was...his eyes were like <looks amazed>... And they were simple, simple moves. But he'd never trusted. He'd never, like...one move he was just skating backwards on an inside edge, and I just wanted him to roll up and then roll back down as he went forward <demonstrates>. I could tell that he'd never really felt the blade go up, and then...you know, just felt it. And then he finally did it the way I wanted him to, and I went "yes!" and he stood up and looked at me. And his eyes got really wide and he got quiet for a second, and then he skated away and he did it again. I could tell he was like, that felt good in the body! So he's opening his mind to new movements.

So how does it feel watching it for the first time on competitive ice?

Oh it's usually pretty awful <laughs>. I haven't done much choreography but I've only really had a couple of moments. Carolina's had awful luck, she just wasn't in the right place, so I never really got to see the way I saw it in practice. No one got to see that. Takeshi too. He was injured when I was working with him, so I never got to see him really do it. And Evan's only done the short once, and it was first time out, and you know, it was a little sketchy. Joubert sent me a DVD of the long program and I was like, "that looks like what we did in practice!" <with expression of amazement> And I was really happy. And watching cute, cute, gorgeous Alissa do her program, it was nice. But, um, no...it's usually not very nice <laughs>.

I know there are people online who wonder when these skaters keep screwing up, whether they're trying to do choreography that's beyond them.

Like who?

Like Carolina, I think, being one of them.

But Carolina was in a bad place. You know, when your skates don't feel like they're yours, you don't know how to tie your own shoes, you're so aware of the sixty-foot billboard of you, and you're 18 years old, and trying to figure out why all of Italy thinks that you're going to win the Olympics. She couldn't breathe. You know what? It just wasn't her time. So get over it. It wasn't her time. She went to Calgary Worlds and it still wasn't her time. She was in a place that wasn't healthy. Skating is so about how you feel emotionally, not just physically.

The choreography is a very interesting thing. I mean, I'm looking forward to more skaters coming to me and asking for exhibition numbers <laughs>. 'Cause that's my thing.

I like Yuka's program a lot - the Wine Safari program?

Yeah, she started it, and couldn't finish it, so she just came to me on tour and said, "could you help me?" And we did it really fast. I just quickly quickly did it.

And that's the other thing. I always work with skaters who are so far away and then they don't come back! "But we have to..." <frustrated look> And then you get to Worlds and it's like "NOOO!!" So that's frustrating.

I wonder why you're not working with Canadian skaters. If they ever come.

No they don't. I've wondered that myself. It's no big deal, but it's like, I'm right here...no? Ok.

Would you ever consider coaching?

Not a bit

Not even short term seminars?

Oh seminars, sure. Oh yeah, absolutely.

You don't want the long term coaching?

Not really. I'm a parent already. It might happen. I might take somebody in, and that might happen. But I wouldn't be a coach. It would be like a special thing, or someone I connect with, or something.

How are the challenges of trying to choreograph for the new code of points?

I mean, it's not that hard. But it's kind of hard to be creative within the code of points. With the really good skaters, it's not that hard. I mean, Lambiel makes it look easy, and Jeffrey Buttle makes it look easy. And Evan actually, too. But those are the top five guys in the world! They can do it. And then the rest have trouble. The hard part is to have the footwork not look like everyone else's, when everyone's being asked to do the same thing in the footwork. And that's a little frustrating. I'm not saying the footwork looks bad the way they're asking for it, I'm just saying that they all kind of look the same. You know, that's not what skating's about. Skating's not about looking the same. So, I don't mind the rules, I just wish that maybe one of the footwork sequences was a little freed up. Like, look, just one footwork we want this, and the other one, do whatever you want! One spiral without grabbing of the leg would be nice. Camel spin alone would be nice. Just open it up a little bit, make it easier for the skaters. It's hard. I think it's too hard. I don't even know how these kids are doing it. They're awesome. I'm too old to even consider it.

Speaking of that, how do you think your own eligible or pro programs would have done under it?

Well, crap! They would have been crap! There's no way, there's no way. They weren't designed for any of the points. We would have been level one all over the place. You know, I didn't grab a blade, I didn't change to the inside edge 'cause heaven knows, when you did that, that looked bad. So what they're asking them to do, we tried not to do in certain situations. So you can't. You can't do it. You can't compare the Olympic champion now to what Brian Boitano did on the code of points. You can take what Brian Orser did, and what Brian Boitano did that day and compare them in the code of points, but it still would be a fluke because maybe Brian did a footwork sequence. You know, these people are not trying to get points on the system, so you just can't do it. It does not work.

Well, there's a lot of talk, people think because you had a lot of footwork and the in betweens, that you still might have done all right.

Well, good skating is good skating. I mean, if I was a good skater, then I should score well. But I couldn't do those spins. You know, I think that Sandra Bezic gave me some great programs that had great connecting steps, and continuity, and musicality, and all those little things that...sure, I mean, I was world champion four times, I must have been doing *something* right. But no, I don't have the flexibility in the spins and stuff like...no, there's no way I'd score well. <rueful laugh>

Kurt the commentator

At Skate America, you were in the position of commentating a program that you actually choreographed (Evan Lysacek's SP). Was that awkward?

Oh, not awkward, it was distracting. It's like, I want people to enjoy the fact that the guy they're listening to actually choreographed it. You know, what insights could I give them? And I was so distracted by getting emotional about it, that I don't think that I gave too many insights. I'd have to hear it and see if it went well. At some points, I just tried to just pretend it wasn't my program and just talk. And at other points, I was like, watch this! He grabs his foot, and I'm so happy he still does it. I think it's really hard, and look at this. I thought, well it's not a world-changing event, but I thought it was cool!

I enjoyed it, it was fine. I think it was fun to be in that position. Because this is a very cool moment in my career where I'm choreographing, a little bit. Commentating, a little bit. I'm still performing. It's like, wow! I'm doing a little bit of everything!

Do you think at all there's any conflict of interest, commentating a program that you choreographed?

Oh sure.

For criticizing your skater or any of the other skaters' programs?

There is if you let it. I don't think I'm that kind of commentator. No one's ever mentioned it. Not the network, no one. For them, they were like, "Cool. We have access to the guy who choreographed the program." It was like, well, this is what we were trying to do, and I was really impressed. You know what, I got on the ice with him, he was better than I thought he was. So, if I had been sitting there as a commentator, I'd go "Evan Lysacek has this and that, he's got this place to improve." Then after five days on the ice with him, I'm like, "Evan Lysacek is AWESOME!" And I didn't know he was that good a skater until I saw him improvise and learn. I had much more respect for him after that. And I hope that showed. That's fun. I mean, if I think my program is good, I would *hope* I thought it was good because I put it out there for him. So yeah, I like the program. I *made* it. Of course I like the program! I don't think it's a conflict of interest. It's a tricky thing. I don't *think* it came across that way.

I don't think it came across that way, but there are people who think it's a conflict of interest.

A little bit! I agree with them! But my job is to give insight on what I'm watching because of my knowledge. Well, my knowledge includes how he made up his program. So I think it adds to my ability to do my job. Is it a potential conflict of interest? Absolutely! But I'm not judging. I'm commentating. I've been paid to give you my opinion and to try to inform the public of what's going on. So, here's my opinion. You don't have to like it. And if enough of you hate it, I'll get fired. But I don't think it's like that. I don't really think that way that much.

Are you interested in commentating for Canadian TV? Especially given the 2010 Olympics in Vancouver?

I'm enjoying the job. I've been getting some response from people I know who will tell me the truth, and people who know, and they're like, "No, your commentary is not getting in the way of the skating. You're not the best commentator I've ever heard, but you're not getting in the way." And occasionally I have good insights, and occasionally, I'm funny. So, I think that it's doing ok. And I would like to continue doing it.

I must admit that it is kind of exciting for me to be with the Americans, because it's like that forbidden zone, a little bit. To work with Terry Gannon and Dick Button... Dick has made me really angry, many times in the past <laughs>. But I think that I was just overly sensitive and his sense of humor, I just didn't get it. And now, I kind of worship him a little bit. And I like getting in fights with him on the air, or disagreeing with him, all that stuff. I think it's great, and I think that we trust each other, actually. I would get mad at what he said on the couch, often. And now that I'm sitting beside him, I don't hear it that way. It's interesting. I think he's better. I think he's changed. I honestly do. And I think he's a little softer, a little gentler, and I think with me he's different.

Terry Gannon just blows me away. Sitting beside him, you feel like someone's just sweeping you along. He's so professional, he's so good, he's so connected. You just feel like, all you have to do is just sit there and just follow his lead. He's incredible. Spooky, to see him. Just to see him work is amazing.

I love the work, and I hope it's it in my future, and I hope I'm doing a good job. 'Cause, I do enjoy it. Keeps me close to the sport. Canada? Canada? United States? Who knows? I'd like to commentate [for] the ladies.

They seem to like to have ladies commentate the ladies.

They seem to. But I could be a girl! I could do it! I'd wear a dress and commentate the ladies. So that isn't going to happen where I am now. But I'd like to do that.